you are all confused

[Cataclysm]

Draven, your entire post is equally applicable to yourself. Your research theorize and prove system you use in science does not work, as the theory is merely a potential explanation like any other (a shot in the dark). A theory is "proven" if it works in coherence with natural law, and improved upon as people realize it is incorrect and chance it so it now works with what one already believes. This makes your explanation an "equally" possible explanation for reality as mine.

I bet you have not even CONSIDERED my conceptions of life, not even yet dismissed them. For instance, you say "soul leaves body equals death". No, death is the result of the body no longer being a capable host for the soul. People leave their bodies and come back all the time. When people dream the sensory input they get from their bodies is replaced by that of their imagination (a world you are creating on another plane of your existence) this is a disconnection, and you go "somewhere else" so to speak. I bet you know somebody who will admit to have had an out of body experience once in their life.

Logic is merely the accumulation of the your current belief structure, and as no means any more correct then anybody else's.

I act as if I'm right because I know I am, you have to take a leap of "faith" i guess, and it has to be in the right direction too, but you can prove it to yourself.

Will and intention is the key to success.
Desire is the root of all pain and suffering.

saying you need something apply's intention to the state of "not having" and being "in need", stuff like that

[mrcnfox]

I am a physical being living in a physical universe.
There is enough here to keep me occupied without going looking for 'other realities or 'states of spirituality.
Whatever spirituality is.
No one has ever actually told me.

[brianhonaker]

Outside the physical, there isn't much. It's not even a place per se, but higher dimensional space. Beyond that, who knows? No one can speculate on it. The argument becomes then, if it is truly outside of our Universe, it can't really affect us here one way or the other.  So to say it doesn't exist would be completely valid. If you want to go around picking things from religions to use as your moral code, go for it. I will be busy learning about the world the way any scientist does. Science, by the way is not one tool, it is the amalgamation of thousands of different perspectives and methods. At the moment, theory and mathematics are our only probes into the true nature of reality, but watch out. The Large Hadron Collider at CERN comes online soon. It's an exciting time!

[Pat]

http://www.tenthdimension.net/medialinks.php
this theory IS math.
it treats time as the space that exists in between possibilities. if you can head towards possibilities you can create your own reality as you know it. there is as much proof of it as there is the first dimension existing, if you want to laugh at that proof too you can be my guest.

Are you a viral marketeer for that book called 'The Secret'?

[TheFluffyDuck]

Your whole arguemtn cataclysm is a logical fallacy called "Special PLeading".  Unless you have evidence there is another world/plane of existance/demension/(insert woo here), your assertion can be dismissed in the exact same fasion it was stated.

Right now that that is dealt with lets move on.

[FreePrometheus]

The only laws of matter are those which are minds must fabricate, and the only laws of mind are fabricated for it by matter.
-James Clerk Maxwell

With that being said, I'm not touching this thread any further.

[Haltensie]

Damn christian...

[dogaro]

I can't believe this has gone on for seven pages I can easily see this going on for a long, long time.

Here's a fresh angle to consider. I'm going to assume you all consider evolution to be true. I personally don't believe our 'souls' can leave our bodies and go on interdimensional skirmishes but assuming they can, what are the evolutionary advantages of being able to see/enter/whatever other dimensions? If leaving the body doesn't aid our reproduction then there is no reason why the trait should exist in even a few people, let alone our entire species.

Cat, could you please stop telling us what hollow lives we lead? It's a very impolite suggestion, and a very general one. I find my life extremely enriching and intend to make the most of it. If you consider the world a problematic place, which is completely understandable, I suggest you try to do something productive about it rather than fantasizing about outer-body experiences and interdimensional travel.

[Disciple of Christ]

hi everybody!
i am a kid from the internet, and i am here to open your mind to the fact that you cannot use a tool to give you answers to questions outside of the physical world. and if that tool is all you believe in (math science etc) then you may even be completely oblivious to the existence of anything else outside the physical world.

do not confuse the word RELIGION

a RELIGION can be a group of people or a structured belief system, even tainted to put power in the hands of few.
but there are and were once people in the world who instead of learning about how to kill efficiently and manipulate their reality with tools they learned about themselves and the world around them.

THE KNOWLEDGE THEY LEFT BEHIND WAS FOR YOU TO BUILD UPON AND ENJOY!

(B)asic (I)nformation (B)efore (L)eave (E)arth

[Occam]

The assumption in the above quotation is that the knowledge that may be contained in religious teachings outweighs the errors, lies, confusion, and destructiveness in those teachings.  I have not seen this to be the case.  Much better to read the teachings of the many philosophers over the centuries, and study the progress of science and civilization.  These will give you a far more accurate map of the world, a clear and useful guide to living a happy, fulfilled life, and a much more loving approach to all other living things.

Occam

[Perillux]

Cataclysm, are you an atheist?
Because it doesn't seem like you believe in a single all powerful being.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway, I didn't read every post (there are quite a few) but I actually like what your saying, I've thought about it a few times before.  It seems likely to me that the death of our physical bodies does not mean the death of our consciousness somehow.  At least that is my understanding of what your saying.
So, I hold that as a possibility in my mind.

If your interested I posted something similar here, check my first post toward bottom:
http://www.atheistnation.net/forums/index.php/topic,1363.msg13526.html#msg13526

[Cheeserino]

hi everybody!
i am a kid from the internet, and i am here to open your mind to the fact that you cannot use a tool to give you answers to questions outside of the physical world. and if that tool is all you believe in (math science etc) then you may even be completely oblivious to the existence of anything else outside the physical world.

do not confuse the word RELIGION

a RELIGION can be a group of people or a structured belief system, even tainted to put power in the hands of few.
but there are and were once people in the world who instead of learning about how to kill efficiently and manipulate their reality with tools they learned about themselves and the world around them.

THE KNOWLEDGE THEY LEFT BEHIND WAS FOR YOU TO BUILD UPON AND ENJOY!

(B)asic (I)nformation (B)efore (L)eave (E)arth

Bullshit In Basic Lesbian English

[Cheeserino]

hi everybody!
i am a kid from the internet, and i am here to open your mind to the fact that you cannot use a tool to give you answers to questions outside of the physical world. and if that tool is all you believe in (math science etc) then you may even be completely oblivious to the existence of anything else outside the physical world.

do not confuse the word RELIGION

a RELIGION can be a group of people or a structured belief system, even tainted to put power in the hands of few.
but there are and were once people in the world who instead of learning about how to kill efficiently and manipulate their reality with tools they learned about themselves and the world around them.

THE KNOWLEDGE THEY LEFT BEHIND WAS FOR YOU TO BUILD UPON AND ENJOY!

We do not believe in science and math when it works right in front of us.  There is no need for belief.  We are oblivious to anything outside of this universe or whatever you have in mind, and you are too.  We have no evidence of anything outside the universe and to know it was--I'm assuming the Judeo-Christian-god

The people that learned about the world used logic and science to do so.  Killing efficiently is religion's business and trying to manipulate reality is religion's business too.  What's so bad about tools again?  Some Christian self loathing I smell?

and what knowledge? We were banished from Eden for that one.  Thomas Aquinas who thought the greatest reward of heaven was to see the damned get tortured or St. Augustine who thought we should kill witches or Martin Luther who was a raging antisemite.  Who are these people so infatuated with a god who are smart and left behind anything.  How about the knowledge the Greeks left us?  Oh that's right you tried to burn it all and then only got it back by wanting to kill some Muslims.  How about the countless philosophers burnt at the stake?  I eat your baby's baby's anus in delight.

[Knight]

hi everybody!
i am a kid from the internet, and i am here to open your mind to the fact that you cannot use a tool to give you answers to questions outside of the physical world. and if that tool is all you believe in (math science etc) then you may even be completely oblivious to the existence of anything else outside the physical world.

do not confuse the word RELIGION

a RELIGION can be a group of people or a structured belief system, even tainted to put power in the hands of few.
but there are and were once people in the world who instead of learning about how to kill efficiently and manipulate their reality with tools they learned about themselves and the world around them.

THE KNOWLEDGE THEY LEFT BEHIND WAS FOR YOU TO BUILD UPON AND ENJOY!

(B)asic (I)nformation (B)efore (L)eave (E)arth

Bullshit In Basic Lesbian English

That's great! +1

Anyway, I didn't read every post (there are quite a few) but I actually like what your saying, I've thought about it a few times before.  It seems likely to me that the death of our physical bodies does not mean the death of our consciousness somehow.  At least that is my understanding of what your saying.
So, I hold that as a possibility in my mind.

I don't, only because we don't have any real evidence for it. From what we understand of our thoughts/mind right now, once the brain dies, so does our consciousness. We are nothing more than animals who developed larger brains...

[The Satanic Atheist]

RELIGION

Really Enigmatic Little Idiots are Going to Inoculate Our Nipples.

It sorta fell apart at the end : (

[Mythra]

hi everybody!
i am a kid from the internet, and i am here to open your mind to the fact that you cannot use a tool to give you answers to questions outside of the physical world. and if that tool is all you believe in (math science etc) then you may even be completely oblivious to the existence of anything else outside the physical world.

do not confuse the word RELIGION

a RELIGION can be a group of people or a structured belief system, even tainted to put power in the hands of few.
but there are and were once people in the world who instead of learning about how to kill efficiently and manipulate their reality with tools they learned about themselves and the world around them.

THE KNOWLEDGE THEY LEFT BEHIND WAS FOR YOU TO BUILD UPON AND ENJOY!

(B)asic (I)nformation (B)efore (L)eave (E)arth

Bullshit In Basic Lesbian English

You got me at lesbian >_>

[Perillux]

I don't, only because we don't have any real evidence for it.

Obviously we don't have evidence.  But you also cannot say that we have evidence on the contrary either.  The fact is we have no idea what happens when we die.  It comes down to belief.
So, I believe something happens, and if I'm not mistaken you believe nothing happens.

From what we understand of our thoughts/mind right now, once the brain dies, so does our consciousness. We are nothing more than animals who developed larger brains...

True, what we know is that our brain dies but we can't say our consciousness dies, truth is we don't even know what it is made of.
We can't know for sure though.  I just choose to believe that something else happens when we die, because the alternative doesn't seem as attractive to me.  NOTE: I am NOT talking about heaven or hell at all!
Also, I admit that maybe I choose to believe that because I want it to be so.

[Saturas]

then you are probably leading a pretty content life as it is, and should by all means continue to do so if you have no interest in understanding your own reality.

Generally speaking: We tend to have a pretty firm grasp on reality. Perhaps there is a carbon Monoxide leak in your home which has gone unnoticed?

[WeAllLeap]

Just a quick question...I saw evolution evoked as a way to dismiss moving to higher dimensions. Evolution doesn't necessarily result in things that only propogate the species. If it did, how is consciousness evolutionary beneficial to a species? It seems we could all be zombies that had no experience of mental processes but acted exactly the way we do now and have the same fitness as a species.

[Cheeserino]

I have no clue what you are saying.  Consciousness may be an effect of a large brain.